BlackoutJ

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 09:46 GMT | #1722755 |   | Split
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paztopia :
Here is one for the whole family, the US and UN want to send in inspectors to check out the Iranian nuclear enrichmant plants with Obama leading the way, especially the new 2nd more evil plant they have discovered. It all sounds a bit familiar.



It is concerning. But is Iran more of a threat than Iraq/Afghanistan were back in '02?


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DarkReflection

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 10:28 GMT | #1722772 |   | Split
Well...the Iraqi "threat" was a construct of the Bush administration, that enabled them to garner enough support domestically, so they could start a war over oil and influence in the middle east.

Whereas with Iran, they are openly hostile toward Israel and as we are now discovering they may potentially be on the way to nuclear capability.

So in that regard, I'd say they are cause for more concern. At this point though, not enough is known and if it's exclusively for alternative energy sources (which i kinda doubt due to the secrecy) they should be entitled to it, provided that they cooperate with the international community and allow some form of oversight and reassurance that they are not going to produce weapons.

Cheers!

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 10:37 GMT | #1722781 |   | Split
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BlackoutJ :
Quote
paztopia :
Here is one for the whole family, the US and UN want to send in inspectors to check out the Iranian nuclear enrichmant plants with Obama leading the way, especially the new 2nd more evil plant they have discovered. It all sounds a bit familiar.



It is concerning. But is Iran more of a threat than Iraq/Afghanistan were back in '02?



Overall, I'm far more concerned about Iran than Iraq

Iran as a state are far more organised, their military forces are more organised and more sophisticated than Iraq's, and I think the hatred between Irans population towards the west is far greater

If the US try to start a war with them they will be opening a real can of worms and I think Nuclear weapons being used is very very possible


Bye everyone!

Catch me elsewhere!

DarkReflection

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 10:48 GMT | #1722790 |   | Split
Yeah, Iran is a bigger legit threat than Iraq ever was. They are more capable of delivering on any threats they may make.

I SO hope the US stays out of this as far as military options are concerned..practice hard diplomacy but leave the bullets at home. The US militarily is already spread FAR to thin as it is.

Cheers

-DR


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no-name

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 11:52 GMT | #1722831 |   | Split
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DarkReflection :
Yeah, Iran is a bigger legit threat than Iraq ever was. They are more capable of delivering on any threats they may make.

I SO hope the US stays out of this as far as military options are concerned..practice hard diplomacy but leave the bullets at home. The US militarily is already spread FAR to thin as it is.

Cheers

-DR



Agreed.

However, America won't do anything themselves. They'll have to get involved if Israel decide on military action.

Wouldn't it be great if Israel attacked, then the US went 'actually, we're out' - and didn't help them?

I would fucking love that. Teach those idiots a lesson.


DarkReflection

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 22:57 GMT | #1723425 |   | Split
no-name
Wouldn't it be great if Israel attacked, then the US went 'actually, we're out' - and didn't help them?


YES! That would be brilliant. Make Israel have to deal with the consequences of their own actions. I hate the fact that the Israeli/US relationship has gotten to the point where it has. Israel throws their weight around a bit too much because they know they have US support in their back pocket.

It's like having a 155 pound lightweight walking around picking fights with legit 265 pound heavyweights, because they have a big friend.

I think it would do Israel some good to know that any actions they take, may have to be taken alone. I hope Obama is having some behind closed doors conversations with the leadership in Israel to that effect. It may help ensure that Israel acts with a greater degree of caution and tact.

Cheers

-DR


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paztopia

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Report this post | 02 Oct 2009 23:21 GMT | #1723442 |   | Split
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BlackoutJ :
Quote
paztopia :
Here is one for the whole family, the US and UN want to send in inspectors to check out the Iranian nuclear enrichmant plants with Obama leading the way, especially the new 2nd more evil plant they have discovered. It all sounds a bit familiar.



It is concerning. But is Iran more of a threat than Iraq/Afghanistan were back in '02?



Well i guess on how you see it to start with. Firstly the Afghanistan 'threat' was a totally different creature to the Iraqi threat which was based on lies and revenge. You can pretty much take the Afghan war out of the picture for what i was saying, but the Iraqi war started in the all to familiar circumstances that we are starting to see develop here, and thats turned out just great hasnt it. Its a case of lesson has not been learnt yet. And yes war with Iran is far more lets say dangerous than the others. Obama would do well to stay out of this completely given he won an election with a massive anti bush/war movement, he should just not bother at all there are plenty of other leaders or organisations that can deal with this problem.


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Report this post | 05 Oct 2009 03:39 GMT | #1725912 |   | Split
paztopia
Obama would do well to stay out of this completely given he won an election with a massive anti bush/war movement, he should just not bother at all there are plenty of other leaders or organisations that can deal with this problem.


Politically you are absolutely right. For reelection purposes he'd probably do well to stay out of it.

From a practical perspective if Iran were to say threaten the US or something, he may not have a choice. At least if he's trying to be a good leader as apposed to a good politician.

Cheers

-DR


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no-name

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Report this post | 09 Oct 2009 13:07 GMT | #1730356 |   | Split
Barack Obama awarded Nobel Peace Prize

Premature? Undeserved? Stupid?

Horribly ironic?

All of the above. Tis a sad day for general intelligence.


Nathand

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Report this post | 09 Oct 2009 15:26 GMT | #1730479 |   | Split
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no-name :
Barack Obama awarded Nobel Peace Prize

Premature? Undeserved? Stupid?

Horribly ironic?

All of the above. Tis a sad day for general intelligence.



Glad someone else noticed, I was about to make a thread about this.

He apparently won it for "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples."

That is complete bullshit. Aside from whether or not you like Obama politically this is like awarding an outstanding contribution to music award to katy perry when someone like Beethoven (if he were alive ha)is standing next to her. Bad analogy but I think it vaguely makes my point.


spiritmuse

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Report this post | 09 Oct 2009 15:44 GMT | #1730499 |   | Split
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Nathand :
Quote
no-name :
Barack Obama awarded Nobel Peace Prize

Premature? Undeserved? Stupid?

Horribly ironic?

All of the above. Tis a sad day for general intelligence.



Glad someone else noticed, I was about to make a thread about this.

He apparently won it for "extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples."

That is complete bullshit. Aside from whether or not you like Obama politically this is like awarding an outstanding contribution to music award to katy perry when someone like Beethoven (if he were alive ha)is standing next to her. Bad analogy but I think it vaguely makes my point.



Nobel Peace Prize Wiki Page

The latest controversy is Obama's receipt of the Nobel Peace Prize. He invited genocidal, dictatorial madmen onto US soil to rant about the evil American and Israeli satans. He increased the national debt three times faster than even Bush did, and there's been absolutely nothing redeeming to show for it. He's hired a bunch of racists, Marxists, and all-around loons to his cabinet. He's pushed for unparalleled 1984-esque measures that practically mirror those used by the Soviets and the Nazis to ensure loyalty and order. And he's traveled the earth just to apologize to the rest of the world for America being so prosperous and free. This has given the public a sense that the award has become meaningless. Al Gore's prize, in addition to this, have demonstrated that the Nobel Peace Prize is now awarded to an individual who pushes a Marxist agenda the hardest.



Something tell's me that passage will be taken down soon...


DarkReflection

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Report this post | 09 Oct 2009 23:57 GMT | #1730970 |   | Split
Yeah that passage needs to be taken down because they are the words of a delusional, ditto head, idiot...if you'll pardon my redundancy.

That said. I think Obama doesn't deserve the award just yet. He has the potential to one day deserve it, but he's not doing what he needs to to earn it. I'll tell you...if he passed a strong and true public healthcare option..fine..give it to him...but so far...

He hasn't had the balls I'd like to see him have.

Cheers

-DR


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Origin Of Bliss

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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 01:16 GMT | #1731020 |   | Split
he's really fucking up and doing nothing with the war in Afghanistan. Give the troops what they need or get them out. Don't pick the sit on your ass policy while our troops already there start to get cut to pieces.

Nobel Peace Prize? WTF has he done? be not bush? that's not enough.


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Nathand

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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 20:55 GMT | #1731625 |   | Split
ha and the fucking application was submitted after he had been in office TWELVE days. That is people putting too much faith into a political figure. He is not our savior.


DarkReflection

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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 23:03 GMT | #1731768 |   | Split
I've heard those very talking point on conservative talk radio as well.

I am not altogether thrilled with everything Obama has done. Mainly because he's playing politics too much. He need to decide what is more important to him. Not pissing people off, so he can call himself President for another 4 years after this term? Or...make REAL positive changes regardless if it means he loses the Presidency next election.

I for one think that making a difference means more than holding a position.

As you can see from the previous two comments and talk radio and FOX news and all that online BS..Obama is going to be hated regardless. There are millions of people out there that are the sheep of greedy Republicans.

So he needs to cut that loss because he can't win with those people.

He needs to grow a pair and DO something. Take a stand and stop sitting on the fence to appease crazies and greedy assholes. PASS a PUBLIC HEALTHCARE OPTION. Don't sit there and play politics and not let your hands get dirty..man up...and SAY publicly in no uncertain terms what you want, and what you will accept with healthcare legislation. That's the first step.

As for Afghanistan...there are NO easy solutions. Period. So by saying that it's an easy stay and fight or leave proposition. Is the wrong way to look at it. Either action will have far reaching and long term repercussions. So I don't mind him taking the time and listening to all ends of the spectrum. But it is true that at some point he's going to have to knuckle down and make a concrete decision. Be it a commitment to stay and increase troops. Be it a total withdraw. Or a surge for a year followed by a phased withdraw.

Who knows what the decision will be. But it MUST be made sooner rather than later.

He needs to take a stand on gay rights. He needs to call out liars. He needs to stop being afraid of being called a "liberal." A liberal is a good thing. Sheep have been conditioned to boo, hiss and hate on sight any self identified liberal without thinking. If they would take the time to learn exactly WHAT a liberal is they would see they are being foolish. At the least they have to acknowledge that liberals are not EVIL, that their hearts are in the right place. You can argue how policy is carried out. But the desire for EVERYONE in the US to have affordable healthcare without worrying about bankruptcy is a noble cause. And yet the people that listen to Limbaugh and Co....have been conditioned to yell and scream about just such propositions with even for one SECOND stopping to think about what the "enemy" aka "liberals" are trying to do.

The same words can be said about socialism and socialists.

People are conditioned to mindlessly hate.

I'll end this post by posing a question.

Who is more likely to help you if you are hungry and need shelter.

A capitalist...or a socialist.

Think about the intentions and I think we can learn alot about what and who is truly evil and greedy or at the least ill-intentioned. And who means well.

Cheers

-DR


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Nathand

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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 23:16 GMT | #1731790 |   | Split
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DarkReflection :
I've heard those very talking point on conservative talk radio as well.

I am not altogether thrilled with everything Obama has done. Mainly because he's playing politics too much. He need to decide what is more important to him. Not pissing people off, so he can call himself President for another 4 years after this term? Or...make REAL positive changes regardless if it means he loses the Presidency next election.

I for one think that making a difference means more than holding a position.

As you can see from the previous two comments and talk radio and FOX news and all that online BS..Obama is going to be hated regardless. There are millions of people out there that are the sheep of greedy Republicans.

So he needs to cut that loss because he can't win with those people.

He needs to grow a pair and DO something. Take a stand and stop sitting on the fence to appease crazies and greedy assholes. PASS a PUBLIC HEALTHCARE OPTION. Don't sit there and play politics and not let your hands get dirty..man up...and SAY publicly in no uncertain terms what you want, and what you will accept with healthcare legislation. That's the first step.

As for Afghanistan...there are NO easy solutions. Period. So by saying that it's an easy stay and fight or leave proposition. Is the wrong way to look at it. Either action will have far reaching and long term repercussions. So I don't mind him taking the time and listening to all ends of the spectrum. But it is true that at some point he's going to have to knuckle down and make a concrete decision. Be it a commitment to stay and increase troops. Be it a total withdraw. Or a surge for a year followed by a phased withdraw.

Who knows what the decision will be. But it MUST be made sooner rather than later.

He needs to take a stand on gay rights. He needs to call out liars. He needs to stop being afraid of being called a "liberal." A liberal is a good thing. Sheep have been conditioned to boo, hiss and hate on sight any self identified liberal without thinking. If they would take the time to learn exactly WHAT a liberal is they would see they are being foolish. At the least they have to acknowledge that liberals are not EVIL, that their hearts are in the right place. You can argue how policy is carried out. But the desire for EVERYONE in the US to have affordable healthcare without worrying about bankruptcy is a noble cause. And yet the people that listen to Limbaugh and Co....have been conditioned to yell and scream about just such propositions with even for one SECOND stopping to think about what the "enemy" aka "liberals" are trying to do.

The same words can be said about socialism and socialists.

People are conditioned to mindlessly hate.

I'll end this post by posing a question.

Who is more likely to help you if you are hungry and need shelter.

A capitalist...or a socialist.

Think about the intentions and I think we can learn alot about what and who is truly evil and greedy or at the least ill-intentioned. And who means well.

Cheers

-DR




"as you can see from the previous two comments, talk radio and fox.."

did I just get compared to those things because I posted my opinion about it being ridiculous that the application was submitted 12 days into office? You may not have been comparing me to that and you may not have later gone on to call me a sheep...but just in case you did. My comment has nothing to do with whether or not I like Obama politically or personally. No matter who the president is, they shouldn't have an application submitted to the committee after being in office TWELVE days. If McCain or Ron Paul or Clinton were in office and they found themselves in this same situation, I would be saying the same thing. Also, I don't hold this against Obama, this isn't his fault at all and it isn't in his control whether he wins it or not, (yes he could decline it, but he didn't and he actually handled winning the award quite well in my opinion.) if I hold it against anyone I hold it against the committee for selecting a winner prematurely. Like i've seen you say in previous posts DR, I think Obama has great potential and could do allot of good worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize, I just don't think he's done that work YET.


if I took your post the wrong way, then let me be the first to say I am sorry.


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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 23:37 GMT | #1731823 |   | Split
I was surprised when I heard about the news of Obama winning the Nobel prize. It sounds so strange... and abrupt. Way too early. I think the aim of this is to put more pressure on him, like a push or reminder to make him really do something about certain world issues. But I still think this was a really weird move.


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DarkReflection

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Report this post | 10 Oct 2009 23:41 GMT | #1731828 |   | Split
Quote
Nathand :
Quote
DarkReflection :
I've heard those very talking point on conservative talk radio as well.

I am not altogether thrilled with everything Obama has done. Mainly because he's playing politics too much. He need to decide what is more important to him. Not pissing people off, so he can call himself President for another 4 years after this term? Or...make REAL positive changes regardless if it means he loses the Presidency next election.

I for one think that making a difference means more than holding a position.

As you can see from the previous two comments and talk radio and FOX news and all that online BS..Obama is going to be hated regardless. There are millions of people out there that are the sheep of greedy Republicans.

So he needs to cut that loss because he can't win with those people.

He needs to grow a pair and DO something. Take a stand and stop sitting on the fence to appease crazies and greedy assholes. PASS a PUBLIC HEALTHCARE OPTION. Don't sit there and play politics and not let your hands get dirty..man up...and SAY publicly in no uncertain terms what you want, and what you will accept with healthcare legislation. That's the first step.

As for Afghanistan...there are NO easy solutions. Period. So by saying that it's an easy stay and fight or leave proposition. Is the wrong way to look at it. Either action will have far reaching and long term repercussions. So I don't mind him taking the time and listening to all ends of the spectrum. But it is true that at some point he's going to have to knuckle down and make a concrete decision. Be it a commitment to stay and increase troops. Be it a total withdraw. Or a surge for a year followed by a phased withdraw.

Who knows what the decision will be. But it MUST be made sooner rather than later.

He needs to take a stand on gay rights. He needs to call out liars. He needs to stop being afraid of being called a "liberal." A liberal is a good thing. Sheep have been conditioned to boo, hiss and hate on sight any self identified liberal without thinking. If they would take the time to learn exactly WHAT a liberal is they would see they are being foolish. At the least they have to acknowledge that liberals are not EVIL, that their hearts are in the right place. You can argue how policy is carried out. But the desire for EVERYONE in the US to have affordable healthcare without worrying about bankruptcy is a noble cause. And yet the people that listen to Limbaugh and Co....have been conditioned to yell and scream about just such propositions with even for one SECOND stopping to think about what the "enemy" aka "liberals" are trying to do.

The same words can be said about socialism and socialists.

People are conditioned to mindlessly hate.

I'll end this post by posing a question.

Who is more likely to help you if you are hungry and need shelter.

A capitalist...or a socialist.

Think about the intentions and I think we can learn alot about what and who is truly evil and greedy or at the least ill-intentioned. And who means well.

Cheers

-DR




"as you can see from the previous two comments, talk radio and fox.."

did I just get compared to those things because I posted my opinion about it being ridiculous that the application was submitted 12 days into office? You may not have been comparing me to that and you may not have later gone on to call me a sheep...but just in case you did. My comment has nothing to do with whether or not I like Obama politically or personally. No matter who the president is, they shouldn't have an application submitted to the committee after being in office TWELVE days. If McCain or Ron Paul or Clinton were in office and they found themselves in this same situation, I would be saying the same thing. Also, I don't hold this against Obama, this isn't his fault at all and it isn't in his control whether he wins it or not, (yes he could decline it, but he didn't and he actually handled winning the award quite well in my opinion.) if I hold it against anyone I hold it against the committee for selecting a winner prematurely. Like i've seen you say in previous posts DR, I think Obama has great potential and could do allot of good worthy of the Nobel Peace Prize, I just don't think he's done that work YET.


if I took your post the wrong way, then let me be the first to say I am sorry.




There is no need to apologize sir. I should apologize I can read in your response that I should not have group you in with mindless sheep. So first let me apologize to you. I am sorry.

That said. The reason I made that comparison. Is that I literally did hear that same accusation leveled at Obama from conservative talk radio. And so I made the incorrect assumption that you agreed with that view in more, or perhaps all ways. Because it really is common. For instance if you truly believe that Obama wasn't born in America. You are probably part of that group that believes all the Fox "news" propaganda and the limbaugh lies and and all that.

You are obviously NOT one of those because you expressed your belief that MAYBE Obama could do some good things. Something that none of those people previously mentioned would EVER admit. Sadly.

Anyway...as to the 12 days bit. It is somewhat of a misleading piece of information. Because the DEADLINE for submissions was 12 days before he took office. Meaning that it is possible and perhaps even likely that he was submitted for consideration substantially before that point. Meaning that perhaps the award was not given for his "work" in those 12 days. But that it may be based on his work prior to AND including the assumption of office.

I agree...that his worthiness at this point for the award is suspect, if not highly so. But I think it is an incorrect assumption to say that he was awarded the prize based on 12 days of a Presidency.

I think he was likely recommended for consideration and later won because of what he represented. His election represented, what they perceived to be a positive and drastic change in America's policy and position in relation to the global community at large. I think the notion that Obama won because he isn't Bush...has validity. Not going to argue that. But I also think that there is some merit there. Because Obama's election suggests that the hearts and minds of the American people have been changed in a pretty big way. The same electorate that put Bush in office put almost his polar opposite in office.

This suggests that Obama did ALOT during his campaign to encourage the American people that perhaps there is a different way to approach our position and our policies in relation to the rest of the world.

I think Obama was given the prize because he changed the way Americans think in some ways. He represents a HUGE civil equality achievement. He is a very eloquent man who conveys an optimistic vision of what the world could be. And he speaks on a global stage.

The man...one way or another has had an obvious impact on the world. I believe it has overall been a positive one. I also think that the positivity he exuded and promised has YET to bear fruit. There have been a couple great instances where he displayed some courageous leadership. (His speech in the middle east for one)

All of this considered. I still can completely understand, and in many ways agree with those that say it just wasn't time for this. He hasn't yet EARNED the honor. He COULD one day be worthy of it. But I see why many may disagree with his receiving it at this time.

As an aside, I think he could make serious steps toward deserving it, if he'd grow a pair and take a solid stand on healthcare in the US.


Again, let me apologize for me hasty assumption that you were lumped in with the "Limbaugh Crowd"


Cheers sir!

-DR


Were you part of THE RESISTANCE? Or one of the spineless who advocated activation?

The Wolf

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Report this post | 11 Oct 2009 22:47 GMT | #1732745 |   | Split
Quote
no-name :
Quote
DarkReflection :
Yeah, Iran is a bigger legit threat than Iraq ever was. They are more capable of delivering on any threats they may make.

I SO hope the US stays out of this as far as military options are concerned..practice hard diplomacy but leave the bullets at home. The US militarily is already spread FAR to thin as it is.

Cheers

-DR



Agreed.

However, America won't do anything themselves. They'll have to get involved if Israel decide on military action.

Wouldn't it be great if Israel attacked, then the US went 'actually, we're out' - and didn't help them?

I would fucking love that. Teach those idiots a lesson.


lol, Israel would do just find on their own judging by past history.


Im Winston Wolfe. I solve problems

bighead00129

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Report this post | 12 Oct 2009 03:37 GMT | #1732882 |   | Split
If you don't think Obama deserved the Nobel Prize somewhat then watch this.

Im not saying that he deserved it, but Maddow does put some good points forward.


DarkReflection

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Report this post | 12 Oct 2009 03:58 GMT | #1732904 |   | Split
Thank you for sharing the video.

Cheers

-DR


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disko_eiffel

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Report this post | 13 Oct 2009 03:24 GMT | #1733927 |   | Split
Quote
bighead00129 :
If you don't think Obama deserved the Nobel Prize somewhat then watch this.

Im not saying that he deserved it, but Maddow does put some good points forward.



Rachel is a goddess among politics. I love that woman.


engaged.

DarkReflection

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Report this post | 13 Oct 2009 03:29 GMT | #1733930 |   | Split
Yeah I agree she's incredible. Finally we are seeing a little bit of hard liberalism in the media. The voices on the left have been silent for FAR too long and we allow the extreme right to control the national dialogue. And they are so goddamn loud about it. The right wing strategy is to yell loudly and OFTEN. You don't have to prove anything, you don't need facts because if you say it often enough people will assume it's true, or they'll assume at least that you have a valid position. When in fact it couldn't be further from the truth. It's good to see some left leaning individuals with metaphorical "balls"

Cheers

-DR


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Report this post | 13 Oct 2009 03:52 GMT | #1733932 |   | Split
Quote
disko_eiffel :
Quote
bighead00129 :
If you don't think Obama deserved the Nobel Prize somewhat then watch this.

Im not saying that he deserved it, but Maddow does put some good points forward.



Rachel is a goddess among politics. I love that woman.


I love her and Olbermann, both of them are geniuses. I believe that both of them are more superior in intelligence than all of Fox news put together.


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Report this post | 13 Oct 2009 09:34 GMT | #1734022 |   | Split
What Maddow failed to mention in her little rant, was that all of the people awarded Nobel peace prizes in history, O.K what they were fighting for didn't work in most cases, but they worked on trying to achieve their goals for years, sometimes far longer!

Obama has a tops of about 5 months, and already the Nobel Peace prize??!! just nuts.


The big fish eat the little ones.



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