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I know. At no point did I say goals were more important than winning games. I mean you decide leagues on points before goals, don't you? So look at the fact that Greece and Russia won, drew and lost the same amount of games - I think it's fair to then decide the better team by goal difference.
Also, coming back to this:
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Tøe :
No, Coventry City were not one of the best teams in Europe in 2008. They still needed to do well in their other matches. Swansea should not have won the Premier League this year because they beat Man City in one game. They still needed tie have as many points as Man City.
You'd agree, then, that other games factor in, right? So the fact that Russia were technically 'better' than Greece in their other games (because of goal difference) would suggest that they deserved to go through. To 'do well in [your] other matches' also means to score more goals. If team A wins 4-0 in a match and team B wins 2-0, team A can be judged to have done better in their match than team B in theirs, right?
I just don't understand how goal difference is irrelevant. It generally shows the degrees of quality of one team over another - albeit not perfectly, as I said earlier, but at least with more accuracy than head-to-head results.
Also, why are people saying the Netherlands can go through even though they lost to Denmark?
Small change got rained on with his own thirty-eight, and nobody flinched, down by the arcade.
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Corruption :
You'd agree, then, that other games factor in, right? So the fact that Russia were technically 'better' than Greece in their other games (because of goal difference) would suggest that they deserved to go through. To 'do well in [your] other matches' also means to score more goals. If team A wins 4-0 in a match and team B wins 2-0, team A can be judged to have done better in their match than team B in theirs, right?
I just don't understand how goal difference is irrelevant. It generally shows the degrees of quality of one team over another - albeit not perfectly, as I said earlier, but at least with more accuracy than head-to-head results.
Also, why are people saying the Netherlands can go through even though they lost to Denmark?
I do agree in a sense. But between those two teams, Greece beat Russia, so arguably out of those two teams Greece were superior. Had they drawn, goal difference would come into play, because it seems that the teams are evenly matched.
Yes in that match Team A did better, getting more goals. But by that logic, one could say Greece were better in their match v Russia, as they won. So why should a match against someone else factor into it?
Goal difference is not fairer than head-to-head, as it could be that the team who lost 4-0, had a nightmare game, as opposed to the team winning 4-0 being superior. While the team beat them 2-0 played just as well, but the losing team performed better. The scoreline may reflect the performances of both teams.
Russia lost to Greece. Therefore, while you may think they have inferior players, play worst football, etc etc, they got the result needed. I don't understand how you can say, beating a different team is more important than the team you end level on points with.
If Russia were so much better than Greece they'd have got the result they needed. They didn't. They lost. They knew the consequences. Greece deserved to go through.
Because they're being stupid. The Netherlands are out. They cannot overtake Denmark due to head to head. Even if they beat Portugal and Germany win, the Netherlands will finish third.
Manchester M.E.N - 11.11.06
Teignmouth Den - 05.09.09
Sheffield Arena - 04.11.09
Old Trafford L.C.C.C. - 4.9.10
Leeds Festival - 26.8.11
Could that scrotum tickler be one Matt Bellamy of Muse? :P
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pezzer_11 :
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Corruption :
Also, why are people saying the Netherlands can go through even though they lost to Denmark?
Because they're being stupid. The Netherlands are out. They cannot overtake Denmark due to head to head. Even if they beat Portugal and Germany win, the Netherlands will finish third.
I believe it's a different story in our group.
Assuming that Germany will win of Denmark and we will win of Portugal:
Germany 9 points
Denmark > Holland > Portugal > Denmark. The > being a win obviously
Denmark beat us 1-0, Portugal beat Denmark 1-0 so when we win with a score with atleast 2 goals difference (2-0, 3-1, 4-2 etc) we will be the best out of those 3 based on goals scored
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Oh shit, that's true.
Three way tie, becomes a mini group between the three.
And if their head to heads are the same, i.e. each team has beat one of the three and lost to one of the three, then they have the same head to head, obviously. So it goes to either Goal difference, or goals scored.
That's how our hockey league was decided this year :P...we came second  .
Manchester M.E.N - 11.11.06
Teignmouth Den - 05.09.09
Sheffield Arena - 04.11.09
Old Trafford L.C.C.C. - 4.9.10
Leeds Festival - 26.8.11
Could that scrotum tickler be one Matt Bellamy of Muse? :P
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pezzer_11 :
I do agree in a sense. But between those two teams, Greece beat Russia, so arguably out of those two teams Greece were superior. Had they drawn, goal difference would come into play, because it seems that the teams are evenly matched.
Yes in that match Team A did better, getting more goals. But by that logic, one could say Greece were better in their match v Russia, as they won. So why should a match against someone else factor into it?
Goal difference is not fairer than head-to-head, as it could be that the team who lost 4-0, had a nightmare game, as opposed to the team winning 4-0 being superior. While the team beat them 2-0 played just as well, but the losing team performed better. The scoreline may reflect the performances of both teams.
Russia lost to Greece. Therefore, while you may think they have inferior players, play worst football, etc etc, they got the result needed. I don't understand how you can say, beating a different team is more important than the team you end level on points with.
If Russia were so much better than Greece they'd have got the result they needed. They didn't. They lost. They knew the consequences. Greece deserved to go through.
Yeah, as I said several times, goal difference isn't necessarily a perfect system but it's far more accurate than head to head. You're more likely to win a game based on luck than get a 'lucky' extra few goals. Okay, it might work better in full-on leagues, but it shows long-term ability (or ability over time) as opposed to your ability to snatch a win right at the end. Over time Russia looked like the better team in the group, whilst Greece looked pretty much down and out and were overall shocking in their performances, and goal difference accurately represents that. A lucky win right at the end of the group stage isn't representative of overall performance.
Small change got rained on with his own thirty-eight, and nobody flinched, down by the arcade.
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Corruption :
Yeah, as I said several times, goal difference isn't necessarily a perfect system but it's far more accurate than head to head. You're more likely to win a game based on luck than get a 'lucky' extra few goals. Okay, it might work better in full-on leagues, but it shows long-term ability (or ability over time) as opposed to your ability to snatch a win right at the end. Over time Russia looked like the better team in the group, whilst Greece looked pretty much down and out and were overall shocking in their performances, and goal difference accurately represents that. A lucky win right at the end of the group stage isn't representative of overall performance.
But, Russia knew they needed to draw/win. They couldn't do that. That shows a distinct lack of quality.
As cliche as it is, grinding out wins when you're not performing to your best is a hallmark of good teams (even if I don't think Greece are one).
Russia only scored two goals more than Greece, across 3 games. That hardly shows a significant superiority. It was in their 4-1 win where they got that advantage. They were poor against Poland and against Greece.
I can't work out how Goal difference would have been fairer.
It wasn't a lucky win. Greece hardly got the rub of the green in that game either. Russia fucked up.
Manchester M.E.N - 11.11.06
Teignmouth Den - 05.09.09
Sheffield Arena - 04.11.09
Old Trafford L.C.C.C. - 4.9.10
Leeds Festival - 26.8.11
Could that scrotum tickler be one Matt Bellamy of Muse? :P
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I'm sorry but I simply find it impossible to see it from any other perspective. Maybe I'm ignorant, arrogant, or just an idiot. But to me, goal difference is the most consistent and accurate way of deciding the quality of teams in a group or league. Head-to-head results should only matter in knockout stages.
Small change got rained on with his own thirty-eight, and nobody flinched, down by the arcade.
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Doos
6961 posts
 - Nijmegen
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The Dutch twitter hashtag for this evenings match Portugal vs. the Netherlands is going to be.... #porned.
“I swear that if I hear anyone calling us Holland instead of the Netherlands, I kill him!” ~ Angry Dutch on calling the Netherlands Holland (Uncyclopedia)
Come on sucker lick my battery
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Doos :
The Dutch twitter hashtag for this evenings match Portugal vs. the Netherlands is going to be.... #porned.
Hahahahaha!
Btw, I don't see how we can ever get to the quarter finals. That's never gonna happen.
B.O.Y.
Rauw!
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Out of clutter, find simplicity.
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Doos
6961 posts
- Nijmegen
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Amused87 :
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Doos :
The Dutch twitter hashtag for this evenings match Portugal vs. the Netherlands is going to be.... #porned.
Hahahahaha!
Btw, I don't see how we can ever get to the quarter finals. That's never gonna happen.
I hope they lose, the Netherlands is a bad place to be when you hate football and the orange madness that comes with it.
“I swear that if I hear anyone calling us Holland instead of the Netherlands, I kill him!” ~ Angry Dutch on calling the Netherlands Holland (Uncyclopedia)
Come on sucker lick my battery
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Corruption :
I'm sorry but I simply find it impossible to see it from any other perspective. Maybe I'm ignorant, arrogant, or just an idiot. But to me, goal difference is the most consistent and accurate way of deciding the quality of teams in a group or league. Head-to-head results should only matter in knockout stages.
It's all opinion really, I don't really understand how you guys can have such a extensive discussion about it. Everyone has his/her preference, but every team knows (or should know) the rules of a competition when entering it. Greece was the worst team of this group, yes, but they deservedly progress regardless of their qualities.
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Seems like van Marwijk is finally giving in! Starting with Huntelaar, Van der Vaart and Vlaar instead of Affelay, Van Bommel and Heitinga.
Still excited for this game even tho we stand little chance of making the next round!
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0 points just looks ugly and sad. Feels a little Belgian.
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People been saying Greece have been the worst team at the Euro's but it's actually been the Netherlands. Don't look a team at all just 11 complete strangers all trying to do their own thing. Been truly awful.
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Exactly that, they have never been a team in these last matches. They don't work for eachother, there's no team effort at all. Losing all games is a let down, but after becoming 2nd in the world cup everything but a 1st place is a let down so that makes it extra sour. Too bad
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musefansam2 :
I was gonna come on here and say how shite Holland are and that Van Persie is a bottle job, but now they've got their first goal, and if they play the team that featured in the second half tonight they might be ok. Seriously need to learn how to defend though.
Nah they actually are just fucking shite.
Finally a good performance from Ronaldo for Portugal. I mean, yeah...he was playing against the worst defence in the tournament, but never the less two very well taken goals. The pace he shown on the counter-attack for that second goal was frightening.
I guess Germany & Portugal are into the semi-finals then.
Earls Court London 20.12.04
Manchester Arena MEN 10.11.06
Echo Arena Liverpool 05.11.09
LCCC Manchester 04.09.10
Manchester Arena MEN 01.11.12
Emirates Stadium London 25&26.05.13
Etihad Stadium Manchester 01.06.13
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Exactly.
Van der Wiel was about the only dutch player who impressed me this week. However he got bummed by Ronaldo, who was absolutely beasty today, and just looked broken in the end.
I don't know who was the most disappointing player, probably Robben, then RVP, then Sneijder.
Manchester M.E.N - 11.11.06
Teignmouth Den - 05.09.09
Sheffield Arena - 04.11.09
Old Trafford L.C.C.C. - 4.9.10
Leeds Festival - 26.8.11
Could that scrotum tickler be one Matt Bellamy of Muse? :P
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pezzer_11 :
Exactly.
Van der Wiel was about the only dutch player who impressed me this week. However he got bummed by Ronaldo, who was absolutely beasty today, and just looked broken in the end.
I don't know who was the most disappointing player, probably Robben, then RVP, then Sneijder.
Williams was the worst mate. He's only young like, but he was truly fucking brutal to watch. Got destroyed in every game.
Earls Court London 20.12.04
Manchester Arena MEN 10.11.06
Echo Arena Liverpool 05.11.09
LCCC Manchester 04.09.10
Manchester Arena MEN 01.11.12
Emirates Stadium London 25&26.05.13
Etihad Stadium Manchester 01.06.13
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pezzer_11 :
Exactly.
Van der Wiel was about the only dutch player who impressed me this week. However he got bummed by Ronaldo, who was absolutely beasty today, and just looked broken in the end.
I don't know who was the most disappointing player, probably Robben, then RVP, then Sneijder.
v
Our defence was the biggest dissapointement tbh. Van der Wiel did ok tonigh, but he was shite the other 2 games. Disagree with you on Sneijder, he was the best man we had in all 3 games. Van Persie has been dissapointing pretty much his entire career in our national team. Can't start blaming individual players when your entire team plays like shit tho
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Nah. He's young and I didn't expect too much from him. He was about third choice to begin with...only came in due to injuries.
Plus he was given absolutely no support from Robben on the wing. It's hard defending against a winger and an overlap half the time.
Robben is meant to be one of the best wingers in the world, but did so little and almost seemed disinterested.
And true. It wasn't really an individual issue. The big players didn't stand up when needed though.
Manchester M.E.N - 11.11.06
Teignmouth Den - 05.09.09
Sheffield Arena - 04.11.09
Old Trafford L.C.C.C. - 4.9.10
Leeds Festival - 26.8.11
Could that scrotum tickler be one Matt Bellamy of Muse? :P
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pezzer_11 :
Nah. He's young and I didn't expect too much from him. He was about third choice to begin with...only came in due to injuries.
Plus he was given absolutely no support from Robben on the wing. It's hard defending against a winger and an overlap half the time.
Robben is meant to be one of the best wingers in the world, but did so little and almost seemed disinterested.
And true. It wasn't really an individual issue. The big players didn't stand up when needed though.
Indeed, can't really blame Willems. As you said he's 3rd choice in the team, the guy is 18. He's not even the main back player for PSV, he's only played half a season in our national league due to an injury in that team aswell so tbh he does really well. Still to young for this level of footbal tho.
I feel like Robben is completely out of shape after his unlucky performance in the German league
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Doos
6961 posts
- Nijmegen
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The Dutch players should be forced to give their salaries to Portugal, that would help solve the economic crisis. Countries losing from Spain and Greece should be forced to do the same thing. Then this whole tournament would be of some use.
“I swear that if I hear anyone calling us Holland instead of the Netherlands, I kill him!” ~ Angry Dutch on calling the Netherlands Holland (Uncyclopedia)
Come on sucker lick my battery
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Doos :
The Dutch players should be forced to give their salaries to Portugal, that would help solve the economic crisis. Countries losing from Spain and Greece should be forced to do the same thing. Then this whole tournament would be of some use.
Well that's a bit of an ignorant statement, especially if you consider how Barcelona and Real Madrid still have no problem getting loans/money from the banks, whom the Spanish people and other European nations are saving, basically sponsoring those clubs' new ridiculous signings and contracts themselves. Surely the problem is mainly internal and inherent to the football culture in those countries.
Also, Portugal, Spain, Greece and perhaps Italy all progressing to the quarter finals might obstruct your plan. 
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Tøe
7906 posts
 - Brisbane, Australia
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Shame we didnt make it. But sort of had that coming after the 89th minute goal in the Portugal. Put up a good fight though. Beat (a very unimpressive) Netherlands and had both Germany and Portugal level going into the last 10 minutes of the game. For a country like Denmark you cant really expect more than that.
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RandomJ :
People been saying Greece have been the worst team at the Euro's but it's actually been the Netherlands. Don't look a team at all just 11 complete strangers all trying to do their own thing. Been truly awful.
Pretty much this. Gutted. Who the fuck do I support now?!
King Of The Late Night Thread
Ilse.. 
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