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I think lots of people detest hunting without understanding it at all. Fox hunting is a good way of killing the old and weak foxes, as the young and healthy escape. As far as I know hunts were called upon to target a particular fox which has been killing chickens or causing problems for a farmer.
It is just such a non-issue for me when there are so many important things like clean hospitals and declining education standards, it seems ridiculous to have protests over how we kill pests. To use the parliament act aswell is just madness!
Then there are the people who treat it as a class war thing. Someone even stated that point expicitly on this very thread: "but i disagree with the whole upper class attitude". I don't fox hunt but if some upper class people choose to hunt in a traditional way and make a day of riding through the countryside and chasing the trail of a fox then so be it. Just imagine it was the other way round, it isn't acceptable to discriminate against the rich just because they choose to "have a shot of sherry".
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its called a sport i don't know how it got that title because its sick anyone who does it should be ripped to shreds themselves
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SkylineGTRGSL :
its called a sport i don't know how it got that title because its sick anyone who does it should be ripped to shreds themselves
You guys will be after fishermen next!
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Kashmir :
I think lots of people detest hunting without understanding it at all. Fox hunting is a good way of killing the old and weak foxes, as the young and healthy escape.
Haha,what a load of rubbish!  It's just a sport for posh twats! I can't stand the idea,I don't mind the shooting but the hunts are just cruelty.
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So it is totally about class warfare for you colin? Aren't even slightly ashamed to admit that? It is like a posh person saying well I don't mind football but I don't want any northeners playing, I mean they don't talk proper. Shame on you!
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Kashmir :
So it is totally about class warfare for you colin? Aren't even slightly ashamed to admit that? It is like a posh person saying well I don't mind football but I don't want any northeners playing, I mean they don't talk proper. Shame on you!
Shame on me for disliking posh people who kill for fun or just stating the truth? Also how many 'common' people do you see doing it? Shame on you for thinking this is an acceptable sport! 
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Kashmir :
I think lots of people detest hunting without understanding it at all. Fox hunting is a good way of killing the old and weak foxes, as the young and healthy escape.
I still can't believe you came up with that. Hahaha! That's the worst excuse I've ever heard for fox hunting.
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colin88 :
Shame on me for not liking posh people who kill for fun or just stating the truth? Also how many 'common' people do you see doing it? Shame on you for thinking this is an acceptable sport!
Shame on you for being so biased against people who play polo and like to wear red jackets. This is not the issue! You are for the killing of foxes by guns which is a less effective way of targetting foxes.
Why do you have a problem with people who enjoy riding in the country every weekend and chasing foxes. They generally kill the infirm and old foxes anyway. It isn't a cruel way to kill a fox in my opinion, if they didn't do it farmers would probably just shoot them anyway.
What is the difference. You just want to deprive certain people of a passtime they enjoy just because you have a natural dislike for "posh" people.
CLASS WAR IS RIDICULOUS!
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Kashmir :
What is the difference. You just want to deprive certain people of a passtime they enjoy just because you have a natural dislike for "posh" people.
CLASS WAR IS RIDICULOUS!
eh... what a load of nonsense.
King Of The Late Night Thread
Ilse.. 
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This is in a large part driven by class war. You don't like that people with posh voices like to get all dressed up in red, "have a shot of sherry", get their stable boy to fetch their horse and go chase a fox.
It was a proven method accepted by all in the countryside to keep foxes under control. They happened to enjoy this traditional sport, many people enjoy hunting all over the world.
It just seems a shame to get rid of it. I don't think it is any more cruel than any other way of population control. In fact I had heard that often foxes die a slow and painful death when shot instead of a quick one when a dog rips its neck instantly.
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ohms12 :
eh... what a load of nonsense.
Wow you convinced me!
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Kashmir :
Shame on you for being so biased against people who play polo and like to wear red jackets. This is not the issue! You are for the killing of foxes by guns which is a less effective way of targetting foxes.
Why do you have a problem with people who enjoy riding in the country every weekend and chasing foxes. They generally kill the infirm and old foxes anyway. It isn't a cruel way to kill a fox in my opinion, if they didn't do it farmers would probably just shoot them anyway.
What is the difference. You just want to deprive certain people of a passtime they enjoy just because you have a natural dislike for "posh" people.
CLASS WAR IS RIDICULOUS!
You really do speak a load of rubbish don't you? 'They generally kill the infirm and old foxes anyway',they kill all the foxes DUH! . I want to deprive people of this passtime due to it being a cruel and unnecessary sport. The shooting is a far less cruel way of doing it and I guess these idiots would still get a little thrill out of it.
I don't want to deprive them just because they're posh people,I want to deprive them because this shitty little sport doesn't do anything for this country.
Why are you resorting to arguing about class wars anyway? The argument is about fox hunting. I don't care who does it,if middle class people started doing it I'd still hate them for it.
Also,I don't hate all posh people. 
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I had been informed that often shooting is more "cruel" as the animal dies a slow and painful death. Moreover it is indiscrimate, young foxes and killed, mothers are killed and their young are left to die. Not just those too decrepid to escape.
I just resent the fact that the main opposition to fox hunting goes along the lines of anthropomorphising a fox. They don't care about facts they just let their own imagination create their own facts.
Unless fox hunting is found to be a cruel way of killing a fox then there is no basis to ban it.
About the class war thing I was responding to another person's post oops sorry!
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Well its been banned in Scotland and has been working fine. i dont see why it cant be banned in England. its cruel and inhumane. its a sport that shouldnt be allowed to continue, end of story.
King Of The Late Night Thread
Ilse..
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This is the problem, just saying something is inhumane doesnt make it so. The countryside alliance says that fox hunting is effective and no more cruel than any alternative and they have studies to back their claims.
I guess I am just not an animal lover, I eat meat, I am for vivisection. I just care more about people than animals, it is the way I am.
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Oh dear,do you think the people on the hunts go around saying 'There's a young one,dogs leave that one,oooh there's an old one,lets get it cuthbert'?. What a load of rubbish. It also depends with the shooting on where you hit the fox,obviously. I'm sure if the hunt wasn't cruel then they wouldn't have banned it. At least with the shooting the farmers would be killing the ones which are causing problems. With the hunt foxes are killed without reasons,apart from your idea that they're old and not needed.
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“Hunting by hounds is the most natural and humane way of controlling the population of all four quarry species - fox, deer, hare and mink - in the countryside.” Statement supported by over 500 members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.
“Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel…The short answer to that question is no.”
Lord Burns, chair. Inquiry into Hunting with dogs.
Apparently...
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Kashmir :
This is the problem, just saying something is inhumane doesnt make it so. The countryside alliance says that fox hunting is effective and no more cruel than any alternative and they have studies to back their claims.
I guess I am just not an animal lover, I eat meat, I am for vivisection. I just care more about people than animals, it is the way I am.
well to me it is inhumane. the killing of animals for food is fine, we need it to survive. but killing foxes? for the sake of it...? that is inhumane. theres no need
King Of The Late Night Thread
Ilse..
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One knows so well the popular idea of health.
The English country gentleman galloping after a fox - the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable.
Well said, Mr Harford
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I think that hunting with Traps is absolutely disgusting. The most humane thing to do (if, of course, you are hunting PURELY to control the fox population) is to shoot them. An instant death. If I was the fox, I would much prefer that than lying in a forest slowly bleeding to death.
Hunting for fun is barbaric.
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i think fox hunting is a good thing! its the only time the rich are out of their houses!!!!
joking aside ocar wilde in one of his plays called it the "unmentionable in chase of the unedible" im not sure wether thats 100% rite but its to that effect anyway. its in a woman of no importance if anyone wants to check
*sees no one checking* yeah i thought so.......
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Kashmir :
“Hunting by hounds is the most natural and humane way of controlling the population of all four quarry species - fox, deer, hare and mink - in the countryside.” Statement supported by over 500 members of the Royal College of Veterinary Surgeons.
“Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel…The short answer to that question is no.”
Lord Burns, chair. Inquiry into Hunting with dogs.
Apparently...
But Lord Burns has probably been hunting all his life,maybe he's a bit biased?. I'd still prefer shooting over the hunt,I think the idea of dogs ripping a fox to shreds is disgusting. I can't see how people can think the hunt is more acceptable than the shooting.
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Jules
7943 posts
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Ok for a start. Fox hunting...humane? No. No way. Shooting is a more humane way of culling the population, rather than people getting off on chasing and terrifying a creature. Imagine if some bloke with a chainsaw was running after you to keep the population down, you know you're going to die. I'd choose the bullet as opposed to being chased knowing you're near your end and cut up like that.
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Kashmir :
Shame on you for being so biased against people who play polo and like to wear red jackets. This is not the issue! You are for the killing of foxes by guns which is a less effective way of targetting foxes.
Less effective way? Hell no, it's a more effective way. I don't understand whats less effective than a gun, when presented with a rabble of horses and 'gentlemen in red jackets'. Why are you going on about being biased about people who play polo and like to wear red jackets...thats your definition of posh by the way. Biased?
Just to throw the boat more to the class thing...the people that I know that fox hunt are common as muck.
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I also can't see how the shooting can be more cruel than hunting. I can't see how it's less twisted to shoot a fox than to chase it down by a big pack of dogs and have it torn to shreds while still alive. At least if it's shot it has no idea of what's about to happen. OK if you want to get rid of pests then do it, but getting some kind of sick enjoyment out of it is disgusting in my view.
And class war isn't that ridiculous. Fox hunting reminds me of feudal class systems, suggesting that those who hunt are somehow better than people who don't. There's just something about it that I find very distasteful in that regard.
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I think lots of people detest hunting without understanding it at all. Fox hunting is a good way of killing the old and weak foxes, as the young and healthy escape.
I'm sorry, but i think it's you who does not understand it at all. In nature, it's true that a healthy young fox would have a much better chance of escaping a predator, and would possibly hide down a den to escape it's hungry killer.
THIS IS NOT WHAT HAPPENS IN FOX HUNTING
The day prior to a fox hunt, someone goes around filling up all the holes they can find so the fox can't escape down them. Sometimes they will accidentially fill up badger dens (this can cause the badger to suffocate).
Then if during the hunt, a fox somehow manages to find an empty hole, the hunters will either push a hound down the hole after it (sometimes after the hound has killed the fox, they can't get it back, so they have to do the "kind" thing and shoot it. The other thing they do is dig up the den and either set the hounds on the fox, or shoot it (there have even been reports of them beating the fox to death with a spade).
Is this really in the spirit of the chase?
Also if you think it's only the old foxes you think they target, then it might surprise you to hear of a little activity at the start of fox hunting season called cubbing, which involves going around dens where they find newborn baby foxes and killing them.
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As far as I know hunts were called upon to target a particular fox which has been killing chickens or causing problems for a farmer.
There is some truth in that. While the majorty of hunts are just done for fun, there are times when a farmer will send a hunt to a certain area to kill a fox that has been bothering him. But this is a stupid and unreliable thing to do, as all the hunt does is go around killing the first couple of foxes the see (how are they supposed to find a particular fox?). This is no long term solution as foxes are territorial animals so if you clear an area of them, it's only a matter of time before another one comes along.
A much better long term alternate using all the effort and money it costs for a fox hunt, would be to build better protection for the animals, as this is the only thing that has been proven to keep foxes out long-term.
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Then there are the people who treat it as a class war thing. Someone even stated that point expicitly on this very thread: "but i disagree with the whole upper class attitude". I don't fox hunt but if some upper class people choose to hunt in a traditional way and make a day of riding through the countryside and chasing the trail of a fox then so be it. Just imagine it was the other way round, it isn't acceptable to discriminate against the rich just because they choose to "have a shot of sherry".
I agree with you on the fact that it's stupid to focus on the whole upper-lower class war. But i do have to worry about the mind of someone who see's no difference in the brutal slaughter of an intelligent mammal and drinking a shot of sherry.
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“Naturally, people ask whether we were implying that hunting is cruel…The short answer to that question is no.”
Lord Burns, chair. Inquiry into Hunting with dogs.
i assume you got that off supportfoxhunting.com
That quote is not really a good representive of the whole burns report, as it is more refering to the fact that is hard to tell whether shooting is any kinder then hunting with hounds.
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I just care more about people than animals, it is the way I am.
That's fair enough, but just because you care about one friend more the another, does that mean that you wouldn't mind your other friend being hunted and kileld for no reason?
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I just resent the fact that the main opposition to fox hunting goes along the lines of anthropomorphising a fox.
I see what your saying, but i wonder at what you know of animals. My understanding is that the main differnce between the mindes of foxes and ours, is that we have the ability to think logically and to rationalise. Foxes lack those abilities but they certainly feel emotions. Because they act purely on their instincts and their feelings they cannot think "the angles of a triangle add up to 180*" but they can feel pleasure, hunger and certainly pain.
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Unless fox hunting is found to be a cruel way of killing a fox then there is no basis to ban it.
woah woah woah?? are you saying that you think fox hunting is not a cruel way at all! i can understand you thinking it's less cruel then shooting (that point is arguable), but not thinking it's cruel at all, that is madness. I think that basically any way to kill a fox is cruel, some more then others, but fox hunting is defiantly not the kindest thing on the list. The main point though, is why kill them at all if we don't have to?
At the end of the day, you must think what you believe to be true, but please be open minded to what i've said.
I personally could never justify the pointless slaughter of any human or animal, especially not under the guise of a "sport".
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